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rebuttals to "Gun Control"
Following the posting of "Red Light, Green Light" by Kirby Ferris on 2/21/11, we received an encouraging response to the associated survey (now closed), for which we thank everyone who took the trouble. If you haven't read the article, it is important that you do so before reading this selection of survey comments. The entirety of comments can be found within this PDF file which can be downloaded. There are some much longer but very cogent thoughts that should not be passed by.
We have gone through and extracted a large selection of what we feel are representative answers to present here. Replies have been for most part maintained as anonymous.
Yes, so long as the Identity card itself was voluntary. You know my friend, we walk a slippery slope here. It is oh so sad that we must fear our own government.
Don't like it. We accept the premise that Gun Control laws are permissible. We need to reach for Liberty, not more compromise. Any law that restricts, regulates, or otherwise infringes is unconstitutional.
Yes! Here in Massachusetts where the licensing laws are often onerously restrictive, depending upon where one lives, the state has refused to supply the federal government with info concerning the mental stability of prospective firearm buyers claiming that it would be an invasion of privacy. What an existential absurdity!!
Yes I would. My name is John N Truby and I don't care who knows my position. Your suggestion could not be anymore screwed up than the "background" checks we have now.
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! NO TO ANY NATIONAL ID. SS is a voluntary program. No law requires any American citizen to have a SS#. If you're silly enough to volunteer......that's on you.
I would have no problem with a "Red Light, Green Light" card, and at the risk of sounding like a left wing nut job, In fact I believe if it could be implanted with a chip that, when scanned it would tell the scanner if you are a citizen,this would go a long way towards rectifying the illegal alien problem. But there would be no need to have anymore info then that on the chip. Just so you could be sure that the chip was as it should be, you could go into any police station and scan it for yourself and get the results. So yeah, I'm in favor of this kind of safety measure.
Since the police do not protect us from harm/bad guys, we have that responsibility on our own shoulders. Hell, yes! I would be glad to carry a 'green card' that allows me to purchase and use firearms, without all the c**p we have to go through now! All the 'lists' of gunowners/purchasers would be destroyed and we would be totally free to protect ourselves from 'overactive' g-men and bad guys. Sign me up!
I think that is a brilliantly simple solution. As a veteran, a licensed driver, a CCW holder, a FFL licensee and a Medicare recipient, I have been ID-checked, photographed, fingerprinted and vetted for more than half a century. Sure, I'll carry a National Citizen ID card, right along with my handgun.
No, I would not. Who would issue it? A government agency. Therefore, the government knows where to look to confiscate. The "Red Card", I'm all for that, but it would be easy for a criminal to get around and they don't purchase firearms/ammunition legally anyway. ( I have heard that there is a move afoot to "nationalize" driver's licenses thereby creating a national I.D. card.) I no longer purchase firearms from gun dealers because I do not trust the Instant Check system to erase the transaction as they are supposed to do. I trade/purchase from private owners. I have no firearms that the system knows about and they never will.
The red/ green ID is not a bad idea, however I might suggest adding a yellow border for minors. That may not be an automatic "no" but would let clerks proceed with caution.
No! This is one more way to control the masses and take our liberty away. Additionally, this will be easily circumvented by forgery.
I would carry National Citizen Identity card only when I go to purchase unregistered firearms. America needs more organizations like JPFO to make the American people aware of what is happening to our liberties and our rights to do and buy whatever kind of gun we want. I'm on SSD and having a hard time financially, but I will find a way to donate to your organization soon.
How does one get out of the red light database if put there erroneously? Who makes and keeps this list? This sounds like the government's no fly list. Just more authoritarian claptrap that requires time, money and jumping through hoops if mistakes are made.
Absolutely NOT! This is nothing more than a subliminal way to control gun owners. To me this is one of the most ridiculous schemes any Jewish organization can dream up. Sounds akin to 1930's Germany.
I have been saying the same thing for years, A go-no go situation. With cards becomming harder to counterfeit, this would go well in the states that already have little or no carry laws ie Vermont. G-d help us in California.
(Part) Actually, I don't think that I would want to mentally or morally assign a governing body the authority to have more input into how I live. There is no assurance at all that a tyranny - either the soft tyranny that we currently endure, or a hard tyranny like that of Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, et al - would not simply use the 'mentally unfit' label to justify a prohibition of firearm ownership or to rationalize the seizure of arms.
The author's statement: "Let's face it, we’ve all basically had “National I.D.” since Social Security cards. Get real. Give me my “Green Light Card” and let me get on with my life with a bit more freedom, thank you." just about says it all. How 'secret' is our ID in today's world, not at all. I find no fault with his premise and I agree with his article. [It is also a grand way to further reduce the size, cost and power of this overly large government.]
Absolutely !!!!!!!!, I already carry my Social Security Card, Retired Military ID, Driver License, and Veterans Affairs Disability ID. What's one more.........AS LONG AS IT GOES HAND AND HAND WITH DISBANDING THE BATFE AND DESTROYING THEIR DATABASE.
Not a bad idea. It has a lot of merit. As long as it was only needed to buy a gun not ammo. But I can see "mission creep" coming, what else would they add to it. Green you can buy food, red you can't. Also who assigns the red and green borders, I'm not sure if I want to give the government any more authority than they already have.
I think the government will find it too easy to register your gun when you present your greencard...Government bureaucrats just don't respect rules and will keep a huge data base ready for the next tyrant who use the info for confiscation.Once all these cards are issued it stands to reason that only gun owners and buyers will seek to have one in his or her pocket and then the gun graves will just have to show up at your door and demand you turn over your weapons and ammo..I just think the potential misuse of the card far outweighs any temporary benefit it might yield....for purchase ...until the day comes when the next horrific gun crime occurs and all the bleeding heart gun grabbers will say we know who you are we're coming to your home and we will leave with your firearms.
I will not carry a mark of the beast. I can make private purchases of unregistered firearms all day long and twice on Sunday. The ends doesn't justify the means - I'm glad Mr. Zelman didn't propose this on his watch.
As Kirby notes, the reality of our present Social Security numbers and cards is that we already have a national ID, so there's no escape from that. I'd consider a "National Citizen Identity card" an improvement on the status quo. The right intended by our founding fathers, to "keep and bear arms", was lost in part with the firearms acts of 1934 and 1968, in the first place, and every realistic citizen should most certainly fear the government that fears his/her gun. Such government intends you harm, sooner or later. Bet on it!
No there will always be a paper trail as long as uncle sam is involved. Buy at gun shows from private owners.
Would I carry a National ID card to allow myself to purchase unregistered firearms? Absolutely NOT! I already chafe under the existing yoke of a driver's 'license', 'license' plates, and the SSI my parents sold me out to when I was born. The only benefit to those statist controls is given to the government that issued them, and NONE to me. Unregistered firearms? Do they even exist anymore, outside the black market? Nope, the BATFE has its crimson claws hooked deep into everything, from the end of the assembly line at Ruger, right to the buyer's pocket. As I said, at this point, any unregistered firearm is likely stolen, and fetches an enormous sum in the underworld.
My major refutation for the "Red Light, Green Light" proposal is simply this: COUNTERFEITING. Illegal immigrants can already, for a sizable sum, purchase a "legal" driver's license. Sure, under close scrutiny by the automated police state, they will fall down, but what about the average pawn shop owner, gun shop, or private seller? I can't say I'd be able to tell all differences between an 'authentic' or 'fake' license, or National ID, given the skills of counterfeiters today. With 'dead IDs' or stolen identities, some of them are actually "valid" copies, until one of the several illegals 'trolling' on the ID of a squeaky-clean national slips up, and the whole thing falls apart when the REAL owner of the ID finds out. RLGL?
Sorry. It's just another compromise effort, which will only end in failure. Get the BATFE to ditch their databases? GOOD LUCK! It'll never happen, never in a million years. Nothing short of bloody revolution will EVER get the bureaucrats and pols to give up their control. There's always a backup, somewhere.
I'm for it but I believe the system as you have stated it can be used against the average American. Not too long ago the Federal government and some states would have outlawed the purchase and ownership of any weapon by a service person suffering from PTSD. It almost went into effect. What's to prevent the state and Federal government from drawing up something similar to control access to firearms? A possible example: Drive too fast and have too many tickets and you might be considered a rash person subject to road rage. Who do you go to to fight something like that? I'm sure folks out there can think of a myriad of other wacky laws that could be used to circumvent the Green Light, Red Light card.
I think you are out of your mind, look at your own history w/Germany then look at the history of this country, then listen to Soros, Clinton, Pelossi, Obama, Kerry and the rest of the treasonous politicians. Even the meekest person can be sent over the edge at some time without warning, even with his green light in hand. Wake up, we and our forefathers fought and died for freedom and no one will take it away again, thanks . A true patriot of the United States.
Absolutely NOT. Kirby, there is no reason, what so ever, that you, I, or anyone else should have to produce ID to purchase a firearm. If someone is a 'defective', then he/she should be LOCKED UP until that person is no longer a threat to anyone else. If that person chooses to harm himself/herself, it is not the governments job to stop that from occurring. Any free man/woman should be able to purchase ANY weapon he/she so chooses, including the latest fully automatic weapon on the market --- as well as suppressors --- WITHOUT governmental interference, control, or "stamps". "No Free Man Shall Ever Be De Barred The Use Of Arms" "... The Right To Keep And Bear Arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."
(Part) I think having my Concealed Weapons Permit should be enough. Why does the Federal Government need me to fill out their long form everytime I want to buy a gun? Obviously, all of my personal information is already on file with both the state and Federal governments.
I think this is the greatest, most refreshing idea I have heard in a long time. Outstanding yet simple.
I already have identity cards: social security, driver's license, 2 different pistol permits, a hunting license, numerous entries in the NIC database and 4 different library cards. One more card would not seem onerous. It would help control illegal aliens I'm sure. And if it allowed me to by guns by just letting the gun store see the color of it and matching the picture with my face and no other information, I see no harm in it. Can you imagine the hundreds of databases that already have information about me?
I like the idea. It would work well, but makes too much sense for the Nannies-on- Potomac to ever agree to it.
Yes, it's better than present circumstances. Would love less government control. I can handle national ID, especially if it would help against illegal immigration, but I worry about the fine print.
I already carry a National Citizen ID card, as do most people. Actually, more than one; Social Security card, and a Drivers' License. I have never bought a registered firearm, never intend to, nor does my wife, and she is Concealed Carry. So, to purchase an unregistered firearm using my Drivers' License wouldn't be a problem if I decided to purchase one from a retail outlet, which I've never done anyway. Good commentary.
Sorry, I don't like the idea of a National card of any kind. If the card was issued state by state that would be a bit better. Once the federal government has control of most ANYTHING they already have too much control. Once these cards became the law of the land it would be too easy for the federal government to declare any group of people (including Jews) to be "red" in one fell swoop. It really scares me!!! I hope this doesn't discourage you from 'thinking out of the box'. We need people who can come up with inventive ideas - just not this one.
Yes! I would support. But lets carry the proposition 1 step further with the Green Card giving you the clearance to carry firearms also. No Free man should be barred from the carrying of arms. --- Imprisoned in Indiana by carry laws,
No. Once we all have a national ID card... what's to stop our beloved, sanctimonious federal government from requiring us to use it for everything we buy and for everything we do? (So they can build a database on every Amerikan.) I realize they're doing it right now, but why make it easier on them? I use cash for a lot of my purchases ... no record there.
I will admit I never thought about this in the way he has. I must agree that anyone who feels they have a secret life is really fooling themselves. I kind of like the idea. It sounds pretty good. I also agree that the business of tracing is mostly a show business fantasy. It really doesn't catch criminals. I LIKE IT!!!
Hell no! I'm Jewish. And have you lost your mind?
Yes! Sounds like a good, "common sense" idea!
It would put a damper on the person violating the law by entering the US by illegal means, hence a criminal from the get go, and give us a way to do away with paperwork and database tracking. But being realistic, it would only allow the power hungry control freaks (the real insane among us) to think up new forms for us to fill out and put into tracking databases and would most likely lift the now in place laws for inter-department and inter-state data sharing restrictions. It seems good as presented but would ultimately be twisted and used against us good sane folk.
Yes, I would carry a card.
No. The concept sounds great in an honest world. Who decides if you are red or green? What methods do they use to reach their decision? I feel that it could be used to red light thousands of veterans etc. that are using the VA medical system to treat PTSD etc.
No, No, No,...No! Either the Constitution is the "supreme law of the land" or we exist at the whim of executive decree, judicial fiat and legislative over-reach. Since the definitions of "unalienable" and "infringed" remain the same today as in the late 18th century when the Bill of Rights was ratified, one wonders exactly what part of "shall not be infringed" is it that you consider open to interpretation? We have all seen abuses of legally adjudicated power? Who will watch the watchers? Deny the obvious at your peril.
Yes, provided there are precautions taken to prevent conterfeiting, misuse and that the system can be updated in a timely or immediate fashion to convert a bad Green Card holder into a good Red Card holder
Yes, I would most definitely carry said card. This is in line with a similar scenario I have been pushing for years to friends, family and any stranger who will listen to me without running away. I have found more than a few fellow veterans who feel the same as I and apparently you do. This a superior idea to any I have yet to hear produced by any governmental agency or politician.
Registering people is just as bad as registering guns. The govt knows WAY too much about us and our private lives already.
Makes more sense than any other solution I've heard
Amen to your idea. Basically like the "Go/No go" gages we use in the automotive industry. And you said it right about "living a secret identity" !! Right on. Keep up the great work. Abolish the BATFE.
Im a Canadian. Your "Green Light" card, is just one simple step, for Government to build a Database containing all info on gun purchases, type of gun, serial number. Aaron Zelman would be rolling over in his grave right now, Kirby, Gun Control does NOT work, is NEVER reasonable, and your version is as toxic as any I've ever heard of.
If the ID card is not tied to any database I'd be in favor for it due to the convenience of not having to fill out a form. However, this will open up a whole new industry of fake ID card manufacturing. It won't stop the people who have the connections to get a counterfeit card. Just with currency, any kind of safety thread or hologram can be duplicated. Is there going to be a system where you have to renew the card? Who's going to report when you've been convicted of a felony or have a mental issue so that it is documented that you've gone from green to red? How much more bureaucracy is going to be established to staff this system?
Why not just "mark" the criminals and mentally ill drivers licenses? Under our system of law we are suppose to be innocent until PROVEN guilty. Make the guilty suffer the consequences of their actions.
Frequent JPFO contributor and strategist, Kirby Ferris collaborated intensively with Aaron Zelman over the last two years. Ferris is now the Operations Manager of JPFO.
See all of Kirby Ferris’ articles.
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